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One Eye John's avatar

Is this the right way, or the only way, to characterise government debt interest? You talk of 'the extra £50bn now being wasted on debt interest' - but is it waste?

The accountant & finance commentator Richard Murphy said in August last year, 'many on the political right wing obsess about interest paid on government debt as if it disappears into some black hole. It doesn't. It's just interest paid on savings deposited with the government and there's been nothing excessive about its overall cost of late.'

Discussing issuing inflation-linked debt, you say, 'The UK did this to an absurd, almost reckless degree. In all, 25pc of UK debt was made inflation-proof - twice as much as the next highest country (Italy). We had offered the mother of all hostages to economic fortune.' And you suggest the OBR agrees.

Murphy doesn't like inflation-linked debt either:

'Index linked bonds should never have happened ... it was not the job of the state to guarantee the value of money over time to pension funds'

But he doesn't accept that it adds up to a looming disaster, or even that they should be on the Treasury's balance sheet:

'The claim is that the government is paying more than a hundred billion pounds a year in interest. It isn't. That's not true. The fact is that the government has been accruing an interest liability of around £100 billion a year for the last couple of years with regard to interest. But it has not been paying that sum.'

That's because £40bn of that cost is due on index-linked bonds or 'linkers':

'...many of those bonds may not be repaid for many years to come ... on average, index-linked bonds have a life in excess of 15 years, meaning that much of this money that has been recorded over the last couple of years as being payable won't be due for up to 15 years, by which time we won't even notice the cost.

'So, the true cost of interest is nothing like the amount that everyone talks about. The actual cash outflow cost of paying interest over the last couple of years has been maybe only 60 percent of the total sum recorded. So those making complaint are anyway talking a lot of nonsense about the burden that it creates and that it is putting a cash flow strain on the government which is preventing it spending on other things when that is not the case, and the government has up to 15 years to save up the £40 odd billion - make it £80 billion for two years - that it's got to pay because of the recent bout of inflation.'

So our national accounting includes:

'£40bn of falsely represented cost per annum.'

And Murphy reminds us that government debt, far from being a Bad Thing, plays an important role in the economy:

'What interest rates are doing is allowing the government, as usual, to provide depositors who want a safe place to put their money with somewhere to put it, so that our banking system can operate properly, those in the pension funds and the life assurance sectors who need long-term deposits can have them, and overseas governments can save in UK sterling, which is of enormous benefit to our economy because it facilitates trade and our balance of payments.

'So, let's stop making a fuss about something that isn't real. Interest rates in the UK are not an impediment to our government doing anything with regard to what should be its core objectives, like relieving poverty, investing for the future, dealing with climate change, improving the quality of housing, and so much else.'

It could hardly be a more different account from yours, Fraser. For you, the index-linked debt is a 'calamity', a 'sorry tale', '[a] fiscal hazard.' Combined with QE policy during Covid, 'it has left us with a unique level of exposure.' The UK is 'sitting on a bed of nitroglycerine ... HM Treasury [has] ... created a potential monster.'

Moreover, you reiterate a view of the economy framed as essentially a household budget with lots of zeros added to all the numbers, aka 'corner shop economics' or the 'household fallacy', a strategy very much promulgated by Margaret Thatcher and many since. 'We came to forget the difference between a bank balance and a credit card limit. Living life at the edge of that limit means becoming a slave to the bond markets, as Starmer has now indelibly learned.'

I'll be honest with you: I'm no economist, but I don't think you are either, and you frighten people. I suppose that's part of your aim as a journalist, and it's an entirely legitimate aim. But if there's any truth in what the accountant Richard Murphy is saying, you're frightening us for no good reason. So I'm interested in your response to his points. Not just deriding him as a lefty, as many do. You've based your arguments on facts and figures, so challenge his. How can the same reality be interpreted in two such divergent ways?

His blog: https://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2024/08/23/interest-paid-on-government-debt-increases-private-wealth/

Phil's avatar

Does anyone have the courage and authority to explain the effects of Brexit to the British public?

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