A large and complex issue, glad to see you discussing it. I would agree that there is at least a culture element to this. I remember children at my (north London, local comprehensive) secondary school being told by their parents that school was a waste of time, “never did anything for me” etc, undermining any aspiration in their children and downplaying the importance of education in making a more interesting future for themselves. This was almost exclusively amongst my white working class friends and acquaintances, and met with slight disbelief by the rest of us, white middle class like me, and the various “ethnic minority” backgrounds of all of the rest of us. This sort of culture of self sabotage obviously itself has complicated roots, but is also a very hard carapace to crack when trying to encourage kids to engage and try hard to reach higher…
I realise anecdote is not evidence, but I do remember this as quite a common experience.
Hi Fraser, thanks for covering this issue, it is one very close to my heart. As a kid, I grew up on a council estate, did O-Levels, A-Levels and then studied at Birmingham and also UC Berkeley in the late 80s. I then eventually went into teaching in Greater Manchester. I have taught tens of thousands of kids in secondary schools, most of them white, most of them working class.
Growing up on a council estate - and mine was really nice - there's a definite culture, a language, an experience that seems to me very different than middle-class world. The secret to successfully inspiring white working class kids is to speak to them in their “language.” The same language I spoke as a kid. Now, how many male, white, working class teachers are there? Rare at primary school, still pretty rare at secondary, as rare as unicorn shite at University.
I would really welcome an opportunity to have a chat with you about this - I have a lot of insight to provide and I can tell from what you write and your Ch 4 documentary on benefits that you have a genuine interest in these issues that originates from a place of compassion. I don't share all the same politics as your good self, but one skill you learn living on a council estate is how to get on with people based on how they are rather than how we might sometimes wish them to be.
Keep fighting the good fight and if you are so inclined, please get in touch.
There are a couple of things I have observed in London, Birmingham, Manchester on the one hand, and outside these cities on the other.
Opportunities for children seem to be concentrated in inner-city areas that have undergone dramatic demographic transformation.
The disappearance of public transport services, particularly regular local bus routes, outside large cities has left many kids reliant on being driven by their parents if they want to do more than just follow the core school curriculum.
Extra-curriculum activities offer kids opportunities to feel a sense of achievement over a much shorter timeframe than school studies, which require a longer-term commitment; kids can also try different things and move on if they get bored or decide something is not for them. In turn, this helps build confidence and achieve better outcomes at school.
The House of Commons' briefing "Bus Policy in England" noted that bus mileage in England outside London was around 29% lower in 2024 than in 2005, while London's bus network remained fairly stable over the same period.
I think there is a cultural element to it some families descended from migrants put a real importance to school and academic achievement. One factor not included here would be class when it comes to white kids. Matthew Syed wrote a good piece on this in the times as people arguing dei is wrong and meritocracy is the way forward (I believe this to be true I'm not sure some folk pushing the end to dei are being honest about there motivations to do so. But that's a different argument) but a lot of working class kids who do well in school who go to uni tend to be overlooked in favour of richer kids. I wish I can remember the exact numbers but the working class make up tiny numbers in politics, journalism, academia, acting, civil service and tech compared to there richer counterparts who know the right people thanks to connections made or friends in high places or just the fact they can support their kids in unpaid internships. If we want a true meritocracy we should be pushing talent working class kids into these areas and not so smart kids of the well off into internships freeing spaces for there higher achieving working class counterparts. Although I admit this is not the main problem I think it does play a part in it
A large and complex issue, glad to see you discussing it. I would agree that there is at least a culture element to this. I remember children at my (north London, local comprehensive) secondary school being told by their parents that school was a waste of time, “never did anything for me” etc, undermining any aspiration in their children and downplaying the importance of education in making a more interesting future for themselves. This was almost exclusively amongst my white working class friends and acquaintances, and met with slight disbelief by the rest of us, white middle class like me, and the various “ethnic minority” backgrounds of all of the rest of us. This sort of culture of self sabotage obviously itself has complicated roots, but is also a very hard carapace to crack when trying to encourage kids to engage and try hard to reach higher…
I realise anecdote is not evidence, but I do remember this as quite a common experience.
Hi Fraser, thanks for covering this issue, it is one very close to my heart. As a kid, I grew up on a council estate, did O-Levels, A-Levels and then studied at Birmingham and also UC Berkeley in the late 80s. I then eventually went into teaching in Greater Manchester. I have taught tens of thousands of kids in secondary schools, most of them white, most of them working class.
Growing up on a council estate - and mine was really nice - there's a definite culture, a language, an experience that seems to me very different than middle-class world. The secret to successfully inspiring white working class kids is to speak to them in their “language.” The same language I spoke as a kid. Now, how many male, white, working class teachers are there? Rare at primary school, still pretty rare at secondary, as rare as unicorn shite at University.
I would really welcome an opportunity to have a chat with you about this - I have a lot of insight to provide and I can tell from what you write and your Ch 4 documentary on benefits that you have a genuine interest in these issues that originates from a place of compassion. I don't share all the same politics as your good self, but one skill you learn living on a council estate is how to get on with people based on how they are rather than how we might sometimes wish them to be.
Keep fighting the good fight and if you are so inclined, please get in touch.
Kind regards
Tony
There are a couple of things I have observed in London, Birmingham, Manchester on the one hand, and outside these cities on the other.
Opportunities for children seem to be concentrated in inner-city areas that have undergone dramatic demographic transformation.
The disappearance of public transport services, particularly regular local bus routes, outside large cities has left many kids reliant on being driven by their parents if they want to do more than just follow the core school curriculum.
Extra-curriculum activities offer kids opportunities to feel a sense of achievement over a much shorter timeframe than school studies, which require a longer-term commitment; kids can also try different things and move on if they get bored or decide something is not for them. In turn, this helps build confidence and achieve better outcomes at school.
The House of Commons' briefing "Bus Policy in England" noted that bus mileage in England outside London was around 29% lower in 2024 than in 2005, while London's bus network remained fairly stable over the same period.
https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-9464&/
There is, of course, a far more complex picture behind the plight of white working-class kids, but this seems to be one part of it.
I think there is a cultural element to it some families descended from migrants put a real importance to school and academic achievement. One factor not included here would be class when it comes to white kids. Matthew Syed wrote a good piece on this in the times as people arguing dei is wrong and meritocracy is the way forward (I believe this to be true I'm not sure some folk pushing the end to dei are being honest about there motivations to do so. But that's a different argument) but a lot of working class kids who do well in school who go to uni tend to be overlooked in favour of richer kids. I wish I can remember the exact numbers but the working class make up tiny numbers in politics, journalism, academia, acting, civil service and tech compared to there richer counterparts who know the right people thanks to connections made or friends in high places or just the fact they can support their kids in unpaid internships. If we want a true meritocracy we should be pushing talent working class kids into these areas and not so smart kids of the well off into internships freeing spaces for there higher achieving working class counterparts. Although I admit this is not the main problem I think it does play a part in it
I agree about 'hard to reach' - it's victim-blaming. I think there's a fascinating study to be done about expectations, both family and school.